Do you build your own website.. or get someone else?

[Brendan]

I have been reading quite a bit of the SmartComapny stuff lately, and came across this one.. which I would share with you - To DIY or not to DIY your web presence - Business news, business advice and information for Australian SMEs | SmartCompany (http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet-secrets/20090826-to-diy-or-not-to-diy-your-web-presence.html)

It basically discusses the pros and cons of trying to DIY everything yourself as opposed to out sourcing..

What are your thoughts on this.. do you out source at all? Or do you like to have a hands on approach?

[Oztrepeneur]

I have built all my own websites, plus done some reasonable tweaking of some wordpress blogs. Back when I started out online, in 1997 or so, there was no such thing as outsourcing. I claim only a reasonable knowledge og HTML, a grasp of CSS enough to build a site using it, but nothing of any other coding or even managing an sql database (thank you Fantastico!!)

These days there are so many good free platforms even building your own seems to be overtaken by this easy route - until something goes wrong! Or if you want something that does not look like it was built on a CMS platform!

The area where I have outsource was to have a job management system built for my caricature site (first by an Indian company - never again!) and then by a good guy in an ex USSR country who finalised it and has done some other tweaks (it helps that he shares workspace with one of my artists).

I think it can often be hard to find a good outsource supplier (from what I have heard of other's experiences) but good once you finds a good one.

[nathanhulls]

I design all my own sites, then I outsource the XHTML/CSS slicing.

Sometimes I have them built into WordPress as a basic CMS and I also do some sales consulting work for a company Objectify Services - Web Site Design Bendigo & Content Management System - Website Design Geelong - Web Design Melbourne - Website Management Software (http://www.infusionwebsites.com.au) who have their own proprietary CMS for SMEs

[abd]

I guess it depends on what my budget is and what the purpose of the site is.

Normally I will do all the work myself, but if I have a big budget to spend, I will employ specialists when needed.

[JakeThomas]

I'm a web designer by trade, so I build all my own websites =)

[LudaKris]

From what I have read about getting a website up, you have three main issues:

1. Design (how it looks)
2. Coding (making it work)
3. SEO (so it can be found)

Obviously an outsourcing business who can tick all these boxes would be in a better position for the average business person wanting a great website.

I like the idea of being able to use a content management system like Wordpress and just pay someone to tweak it here and there for the technical things. Control of the content is the key.

I have also heard good things about people from the former USSR countries.

[HWT]

We do it all ourselves - again, we do website design (in Jamestown SA but have done odds and sods all over the country). But largely we'd use an out of the box open source solution like Wordpress or Drupal and set it all up so it looks pretty and then let the owner put all the content in at their leisure.

[thirdisa]

It depends on your skills, but building your own website allows you to have more control over stuff especially on updating and maintenance.

[Carl Taylor]

It depends on budget, time available and if the website is designed for profit or pleasure

I love outsourcing, LEVERAGE of other people's time :)

[OSLeasing]

If you have budget then why not to look for someone else to do the job? try to look for offshore staff. Most of them are professional in creating website design coding and even SEO and its more cheaper than hiring a specialist in your place.

[The Profit Frog]

Having done both - built my own and also outsourced - I thought I might throw in my 20c worth...

Initially, when I set up my hobby business, Two Hands Dancing, I was in a specific space in my life and had thoughts on business to match; ie, I wasn't so financially well positioned that I could afford a "real" website so I literally built my own.

As a hobby business, I didn't foresee that I would come to depend on it for full time income at a future point. Still the original site when I loaded it did great stuff for me.
I scored really great clients and earned good income.

Now, that site morphed a few times because seriously the original site was butt-ugly.

I finally found a free template site and now use it for the base of my site and overall it is really okay.

However, I still hold the mindset that it is a hobby business and that it looks "cheap".

So, when I invested real income into my real business - The Profit Frog - I bought the rights to a licence for a marketing system, and could literally brand it and operate it with my own business name etc.

Thing is, since I invested in a licence, I wanted the website to look exceptionally high quality.
I invested in the business licence, so it made sense to invest in a website builder/designer/host company.

I chose MagicDust and I am extremely satisified.
Very high quality Australian company and they also designed my logo.
I have invested money so there is a lot at stake and subsequently I have a very confident view of my business.

I then felt it was well worth investing in very high quality business cards.

The beauty of the website through Magicdust is that the site has a control panel and I have control over what pages and what content appears.

I LOVE it... and the feedback I've had has been phenomenal.
Check out the two sites and you can clearly see why I would say - INVEST in having the site professionally built.

There is only one word of warning:
Make sure that the site builders understand the concepts of website success and DON'T use a black website with white or light coloured writing.
Yes you can use black as a background behind a white text panel - or a very pale coloured text background with dark text.

Forget the flash sites too if you want real success - it is far too hard for all users to open a flash site and you could easily lose any of the potential visitors.

So - here are my two sites to compare:
Professional Copywriting Services - Freelance Direct Response - Copywriter Professional Writing Services Freelance Web Copy Direct Copy Marketing (http://www.twohandsdancing.com)
The Profit Frog (http://www.theprofitfrog.com)

[babycupcake]

I am proud to say that I do all of the babycupcakes websites around the world. I follow the KISS principal (keep it simple stupid!) but rely on nice design. They have It has been a learning curve, but something that I enjoy. I also get to take photos of baby in cupcake costumes...

We outsource the SEO, because it's boring, specialised & a little too tedious for me!

[RyanChadwick]

I guess it depends on your skillset and personality. For someone who is technical such as myself and also has many ideas they like to experiment with it makes sense to do it yourself.

I have to admit thought that getting the design done by a professional can make a big difference. Having said that though I know several people that have horrible websites but do great business as word of mouth works very well for them.

[seopiper]

If you are a web developer and confident enough to build your website by bringing your ideas and concept to reality then go for it... but if not, you need to get an expert so that your website is presentable which with high quality and standards. People love to visit websites that are cool and clean.

[HWT]

I am proud to say that I do all of the babycupcakes websites around the world.
You should add your site to Child and parenting link directory | Giraffian (http://giraffian.com/links) ... under one of the baby or kid's sections. Free links never hurt.

I'm working on a new site and it is a pain, lot of work and quite slow to do. I've got some other people in on the process for feedback. They are very helpful - an outside opinion is great to have. Hoping to have the site done within 2 months but I can see it taking longer.

[altima]

I have different experiences:

I paid for my personal business web site (while it is wordpress, I needed custom theme).
If I would designer probably I could do the job myself, but otherwise better to pay some money and do the stuff you know better.

My company (that did web development and interactive design) obviously created it's site itself (where I managed the process and other 5-6 people were involved).

So it depends from your resources, web site goals and other factors.

[themedialad]

I think it depends on how easy it is to design, If you have a website building through Joomla or Wordpress etc etc, alot of time you could get away with doing it yourself if you're switched on. There is other solutions online where they've made it almost fool proof, and if you've got the time, you've got the ability. I think whilst some web designers are leaps and bounds beyond the Wordpress' of the world - it may not be too long, until its too easy to build your own website. As i've mentioned on here before, Web 123 com au is a perfect example of just that...

[LemonChip]

I build websites so i do all mine myself...
HOWEVER... I have seen countless websites destroyed by people trying to do it themselves. The vast majority (and i mean vast as in 99%) of them fail during the attempt and end up with a website that is more of a detriment to their business than anything that will help generate more sales / income. So i don't ever recommend people do it themselves.
If you had no knowledge of cars and were trying to build an engine, you'd hire a mechanic to do it for you. Websites are absolutely no different.

[newman]

As a web designer I obviously do all my sites and I do agree with LemonChip - I've never offered content management as I've seen very good sites destroyed by poor content and design being added.

Just because you went to Kmart and bought a good tool kit it doesn't mean you can now fix a car. I believe the same applies for websites.

If you want a good job done then hire someone who can do a good.

[3DFOX3D]

Hey Jake,

would you mind offering some comment on this site www.3dfox3d.com.au (http://www.3dfox3d.com.au) - it will be obvious to you that I built it myself and am a rank amateur (only my second attempt) - it is still work in progress and the e-commerce section is yet to be done at all (am trying to sell it before I go that far). Anyway any constructive criticism would be welcome.
Thanks,

[LemonChip]

Hey fox, there's a lot of things which can be fixed on your site, but i would say that the major thing you need to do is engage the services of a professional designer. If you were install a shopping cart feature as the site is now, I have no doubts that you would find it VERY difficult getting people to buy from it. It does look like you've put it together yourself, and it gives customers a feeling that it's just some guy working out of his bedroom, not a professional strong business that is safe to buy from. There are a number of other areas you could work on, but i think that's the biggest issue you should tackle.

[3DFOX3D]

For those that are website designers bare with me in this post - towards the end you may find the chance to have a new client :)

It is a term that is used often that sometimes needs questioning - "pretty site" or even "good looking site" - what makes a site pretty or good looking and what value is put on that versus functionality and ranking? No doubt if you have the latter two then having a pretty site is a bonus however over the years I have seen some amazing looking sites that have never really "delivered". Delivered what? SALES.

I have recently built a few sites (6, but 2 are mirrors of another site) using a program I purchased (xsitepro). I totally agree with newman - I have bought a really great toolkit but I am far from being a mechanic. Before going out on my own I was a Marketing Manager for an Australian manufacturer that exported globally, a small but effective company. By far and away the biggest issue we had in getting a website developed was getting the website designers (and we tried a few) to get their head around what WE wanted and not what they wanted for the site. They all had wonderful "concept" ideas and excellent artistic and visual offerings but had very little (if any) working understanding of the product(s) to be sold and the psyche of the markets (potential buyers). Most heard to what we had to say about such important aspects but didn't listen hence the draft suggestions we received before we were prepared to contract some one were way off the mark.

This in my view is one of the main hurdles many owners of businesses face when trying to find someone to build their website (the other is ignorance of effective SEO, linking and other critical behind the page functionalities (wow - what a great looking site - you have done a great job - "no idea if it will maximize searches and then maximize conversion to sale rates" - but looks good).

Where am I going with this rhetoric? I am a firm believer that if you have any inclination and even minor skill levels that you build your own site, not necessarily publish it but hey why not (bad sites still get traffic) and THEN consult a professional web designer. LemonChip had a look at one of my sites and offered some very good comments (thanks LemonChip, much appreciated your comments which were along the lines I expected) - that is what I am looking for now - I have put the "basic" concept together and now I need the pros to make the site a world beater. I know better than a web designer what I want to achieve so I go about doing that, then I say well you guys are the experts now ADD to what I have here as a platform, DO NOT CHANGE the platform, tweek it.

My core business is Domaining, my portfolio currently stands at 1,789 registered domains, primarily .com followed by .com.au (70/30 approximate split) - so I create domain names, and buy and sell names from the aftermarket etc. The aim is to make money from selling my domain names. One of the best ways with good names is to develop a website with traffic and sell the name and site as a package. The sites I "threw together" have been up just less than 2 weeks and traffic is slow (ave 10 visits / day) but I expected such as the global search rates for 3D products are still small albeit the growth graph is almost vertical - the dot com sites are getting some global searches, one site has 13 countries searches. One site ranks #1 in a google search whilst another ranks #2 in the same search criteria (search criteria 3d television choices)

I figure from looking at the "competition" for such sites on the web and the general 3D consumer market situation that my sites are about 6 months premature - that suits me fine because as even backyard sites they are steadily gaining ranking. My theory is when I get enough positive feedback I will then engage a pro (or maybe more than one, give one site to one, another to a second to see who gets the best "delivery" - pretty is good - best ranking is better - I am in the business of making money, I don't make money out of compliments).

Take the 3DFOX3D sites as an example - obviously made from a template, lacks lots of content (still working on it), have no idea how good the SEO is even though the program I have has a page analysis feature and I can use Google to appraise SEO - still I know it is lacking. BUT - this is my main point - BUT I love the concept, no-one will move me from that stance - 3DFOX3D - the logo (needs improvement but is functional) is a concept in itself, a "brandable" logo that will be marketed over multiple sites in various countries with "loca"l flavor" added to engender local country / region "ownership" loyalty but also being part of a Global community - the 3DFOX3D CLUB. More FOX countries are registered but no site launched yet.

Some sites I develop I will sell - the FOX thing I am very tempted to keep and develop the business for myself (not by myself).

So my comments started off to be general - now I suppose I have laid down a challenge to web designers - aside from improving the looks and navigation of the FOX site(s) what sort of strategy would you put in place to obtain minimum page 2 Google (global and for each tld extension) ranking and in the process help make 3DFOX3D a recognizable brand and name on everyones lips? I have some ideas but the next phase of the website development is way beyond my capabilities.

want to put your toe in the water - PM me if so.

p.s. I figure as 3D begins to become the in demand thing (once 3D Computers are readily available which is likely to be by second half of 2011) that some of these names that I own may be useful to website designers, what do you guys who are in the industry think?? 3dwebsitedesigns dot com and .com.au, 3dwebdesigns dot com and .com.au, websitedesigns3d dot com.au, 3dwebdesigner dot com and .com.au and about a dozen or so more on a similar theme :)

thanks for your time in reading this post - I loook forward to any comments from anyone.

cheers, Mike

[LemonChip]

Hey Mike (didn't want to refer to you as fox again hehe),

You're 100% correct that having a web site that looks great does not necessarily mean that it'll be successful, and yes there are plenty of web designers out there who don't listen closely to what their clients want, and instead try to push other endeavours upon them so they can do something cool.

However... Even though a you are correct in saying that bad sites still get traffic, it's also important to consider how useful that traffic is in those instances. If a website gets 100 unique visitors per day, but all of them are turned off, or too afraid to convert into a paying customer then the value of having those visitors is low.

Yes web sites can rank highly even though it hasn't been skillfully designed, and by the sounds of it your early adoption of 3D domains and content has enabled you (for the moment) to achieve a high Google ranking (though this is always a moving target). The ability to get a visitor not only to visit your site, but also stay & learn, investigate, interact, and eventually buy something from the site is where the importance of designers becomes clear.

If customers don't feel comfortable handing over their credit card info, or if they don't believe that the business is solid, then they will leave and it's the design of all the elements (including content) which all work together to communicate this feeling of confidence to the user.

I really like where your head is at in terms of building the site, and then modifying it. It shows a lot about how you naturally think the content should flow on the site, and as the expert in the area of this 3D technology, you will have a much more solid understanding of certain aspects relating to the product compared to a designer who has to come in half way and try to learn it from scratch. So I do think that's valuable.
That's not the approach that a lot of people take however so I definitely think you're definitely in a more advanced head space already because you're aware of the various advantages and pitfalls of the process.

I'm definitely interested in talking with you some more about your site, and also learning some more about the potential applications for 3D tech.

[3DFOX3D]

So LemonChip, by what other name do people use to communicate with you (no xxx names please), you have me at a disadvantage. I figure you are female (lol, a 50/50 chance of being correct).

Again your comments are welcomed. Yes, as I stated, "delivery" is critical - hits are one thing but getting people to stay on the site is another. Currently I am averaging between 2 and 3 minutes and 3 to 4 pages per visitor with a bounce rate of less than 50% - based on small volume however pretty good indicator stats. The e-commerce side of the project is secondary - the market is not ready yet to be handing over money over the net for a new technology they are unsure of - 99.9% of buyers of 3D Televisions currently will purchase in-store - a few will go and have a look then once a choice is decided scour the net for a better price. I am likely to go down the path of affiliate programs and hence utilize the e-commerce packages of the principals and incorporate them into the site design which will still need a pro to do.

Having said that my main mission at present is to get traffic - with good traffic and reasonable page rank the site is saleable to someone who can then proceed to phase 2 and beyond, the quality improvements and e-commerce aspects.

I am still betwixt and between as to what I will do with these sites - time is the issue - I also have many other names that I want to turn into live sites to use as "feeders" to the better names (I call it vertical web marketing, some call it link farming however if the sites have similar interests (3d) then google doesn't see it as covert link farming, right?? - I need, at some point, both site improvement as well as web marketing advice to ensure I get the best out of the names I own.

So I will keep in touch - how do you charge? - by the hour, by page, by agreed project completion price? Can you give me a few sites you have done for me to look at, then once I have had a look at those I will ring you to get a few more, have someone else keep talking to you whilst I visit those sites, get the contact numbers and speak to them before you can warn them to respond with a good complimentary spiel :)

No comment on the web designer names ?? looking now for the dissappointed icon.....;)

cheers, Mike

[3DFOX3D]

wrong icon

[3DFOX3D]

what is the shortcut for the disappointed icon ?

[LemonChip]

Haha sorry my realy name is Stuart... So no, i'm not a woman lol.

Usually I try to charge for a completed project. I think by the hour is a bit unfair.
Some of the most recent projects I've been involved with are:

Sideways (http://sideways.com.au)
Carnells Furniture (http://carnells.com.au)
Ragged Edge (http://www.raggededge.com.au/)
Zizzle (http://www.zizzle.com.au) is a current project that's still in progress at the moment.

Haha sorry, i did like some of those 3d web design names! Curious to know how much they would be on-sold for...

[3DFOX3D]

Haha sorry my realy name is Stuart... So no, i'm not a woman lol.

Usually I try to charge for a completed project. I think by the hour is a bit unfair.
Some of the most recent projects I've been involved with are:

Sideways (http://sideways.com.au)
Carnells Furniture (http://carnells.com.au)
Ragged Edge (http://www.raggededge.com.au/)
Zizzle (http://www.zizzle.com.au)is a current project that's still in progress at the moment.

Haha sorry, i did like some of those 3d web design names! Curious to know how much they would be on-sold for...


For you Stuart very special price, very happy price, if you buy will make me happy:D - they range from $7000 to about $25000 for the best couple of the bunch (the name websitedesign dot com.au sold for $22,000 a week ago, it will not attract as much 3D design work as my names will - can do a package deal, buy 12 names and I throw in one for free :rolleyes:

Seriously - when 3D hits how much work could you get with a name like 3dwebsitedesigns ? if you couldn't handle the flood of work do you know a big web design company I could approach - or do you want to approach them for a commission (10% of sale) - if you want to make a few dollars on the side I can send you a full list of web design names

cheers,

[LemonChip]

Sure im interested to see a list. :)

[3DFOX3D]

I just started a thread - 3D Domains for sale - sits above this thread on the board - check it out.

cheers,